A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. Sign up to receive product offers and news! By Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. Callaway 2018 MB irons When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! Espana. Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana (I ran into this today.) In my experience I have seen guys in the 8-14 handicap range with moderate ball speed try X Hot irons, and see much better results with the Rocketbladez. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. On a driver? Well driving iron to be exact. How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. Your link has been automatically embedded. 00bolt, September 12, 2016 in WRX Club Techs. More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. In turn creating around 12 more yds. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. All rights reserved. If the customer cant get the 4 iron in the air, pull that too and give them a hybrid that will get in the air. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. To do this I will need to bend the 6 iron - PW 1 degree stronger. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. Paste as plain text instead, The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. I am in favor of weaker lofts. This applies to both face angle and lie. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. Clear editor. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. 2023 Acushnet Company. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. It just depends. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? Study those players and mimic their set-up and you will take another giant step toward playing better golf. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. Some get more spin, some less. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. It flies lower and that is about it. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. 5-G I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. NOW AVAILABLE: GolfWRX G/Fore Hats and Holderness & Bourne Polos! Typical launch angle would improve from 13-14* to 17-18*. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. And here is why. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. You must log in or register to reply here. Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* Location. Golfers who know this information will have a much easier time controlling their ball flight, hitting the center of the clubface more consistently. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. Your previous content has been restored. 16,822. Thanks for everybody for your help! JavaScript is disabled. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. Product Instructions & Manuals I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? Being a golf club designer and marketer, I certainly know that there are gains to be made in your efficiency by availing yourself of the right modern equipment. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not. When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Albion, MI 49224 TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X United States. I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. Among full-swing clubs, drivers have the lowest degrees of loft (some pros use drivers with as little as 7 degrees of loft; most recreational golfers use drivers lofted at 9 to 14 degrees). We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. Powered by Invision Community. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. Furthermore, he was 15th at the end of the first round on debut here last year and 11th after Thursdays round at the correlative Corales in the Dominican Republic. What the heck are they were talking about? The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. Good question. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. Bomb and gouge. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". :-). There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ IG: golfer_scott Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. An Aussie with a residence in Scottsdale, playing on a windy coastal track this is a great chance. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By . If they are not bent properly you can change the lie fairly easily unintentionally. Generally bending lofts on irons unless you are tweaking them to even out a gap. I find Callaway irons have to much bounce to begin with esp. The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. I am wanting to bend my 5-PW one degree stronger and my 4 irontwo degrees stronger to fit better with my wedges and hybrid golf club. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. Your link has been automatically embedded. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? But regardless of the type of change you are trying to make, you also have to be willing to commit to it and suffer the learning period oftentimes you have to get worse (for a while) to get better (permanently). Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. ENTER NOW! Lots of good comments here. That is only if the area you are going to contact the ball moves up on the face as a result of bending, the lower portion of the face will move backwards when bent strong. Theyre selling the clubs by saying that you will hit them longer, yet like you said, many of those whod need the help arent really hitting at least the longer irons any longer. The refit yielded a super driving iron. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. I've never had a sand wedge bent. Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. You cannot paste images directly. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X Will I be digging too much? Titleist does recommend no more than +/- 2 degrees from factory and you should be ok. Any more and there is a risk of the stress cracks in the hosel area (primarily cosmetic). You won't notice it. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. I do not find these to dig at all. Can someone please discuss the advantages and disadvantages of increasing loft on an iron by 2 degrees? I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. (more on this down below). there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. One good example comes to mind. Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood I've bent tons of clubs. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. Craig, Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. Bending the loft is another story. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65xStrong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400. Here is a quick list of scenarios that might mean that you need to use a flatter lie angle in your clubs: On the flip side, here is a list of situations that might require you to get a more upright lie angle: The best way to get your loft and lie adjusted is by a professional club fitter. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X Including me. I'm guessing it will dig more but how much more? Step 3. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. You can post now and register later. My irons are bent weak partly to get the right launch conditions but also to reduce my draw. The Ever Changing Bag! They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. If your intent is to modify them by making them one degree strong, you will be changing the play of the iron, and also the physical appearance possible (could be debatable if the human eye can tell one degree, I'm not sure since I have never had to do this to any of my sets.). I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. ProV1x-mostly. I guess Ill need to have my next irons bent weaker leaving some marks on the blade and hosel. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. . document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. Im also adding a 5 wood to the bag and changing to a 54/60 wedge set-up. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. Callaway MD 2 58 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. You can post now and register later. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. 5 Testers Needed! On 7/12/2018 at 3:15 PM, PoeKingShankspeare said: Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. I have mine bent 2 degrees strong and cannot see any visible difference. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. Below, you'll see the results. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? You may want to try searching if you need more info. FAQs Sure. Since loft and bounce is connected, and cant be split no matter what we do. You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. Not a dispute with the OP, maybe even validation, but what about head style? Thank you for such an eye opening article. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. Everyone's comments are super helpful! Driver: GolfWRX is on the ground in Orlando ahead of the 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill Club & Lodge. Hes learned nothing Olympic legend launches scathing attack on Tiger Woods over tampon apology, Golf fans left bemused following bizarre Jim Nantz blunder, Best driver 2023: Expert club fitters recommend the best driver for your swing speed, An UP-CLOSE look at Tiger Woods famous Scotty Cameron putter, David Feherty ridiculed for Greg Norman comment during LIV broadcast, Tour pro says LIV would be done if Brooks Koepka returned to PGA Tour, TOUR REPORT: McIlroy switches drivers during Genesis Invitational (plus Tigers iron change). i dont need that. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. The reason this happens has to do with an iron's center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an iron's COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. i realize the distance and ball flight. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. It is amazing how much higher/lower similar irons can perform, in terms of player level. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards.